Griz @ ISU : second-half notes
Notes and analysis from the second twenty of the quarter-final game. We're going live this half.
- Griz come out very slow. Instead of pushing the lead up by four and making it ten, they let it slide down to two and eventually let the Bengals tie it up.
- No major improvement in the rebounding department.
- Griz need to get the ball inside but it's tough to focus on that when your best post player continuously gets double-teamed.
- Griz need to have the lead going down the stretch. Despite what happened in the last match-up, the Griz are not a great team playing from behind.
- Rundles has SIX assists with eight and a half to play. Not too shabby for the shooting guard.
- The lead is eight with under eight to play. We need to get back in this ASAP. Scary territory here.
- Whenever Mick says "no hill for a climber," it scares the hell out of me.
- The Griz need stops very bad as we come down the stretch and they are just not there. The offense is, but you need stops too.
- Rundles' shooting just isn't there tonight. He needs to focus on driving and distributing.
- All of a sudden, Drew has 4. That's terrifying.
- Treys by Staudacher and Martin cut it from 8 to 2. THANK YOU! Let's win this fellas!!!
- Free throws are going to be big coming down the stretch. That is scary.
- As always, our defense is abysmal coming down the stretch. Things are looking very very dire.
- Griz down 6 with 1:37 to play. As I said, dire.
- Free throws hurting the Griz badly coming down the stretch. As usual, fundamentals (rebounding and FTs) costing the game. Well done players, coaching staff.
- Griz blow another season. For many fans, things don't seem as large as they are for someone like myself. I'm a student. After an AMAZING freshman year I expected more of the same. Now I go into a senior season where things look great to some but to me, still very questionable. Both Graves and Rundles may be leaving. With the losses of those two guys, we get a lot slower going into these next few years. I never thought things would go progressively downhill after that amazing 05-06 season. Whether anyone admits it or not, that's what happened. Our program was looking great then things dipped into mediocrity. I pray to God things turn around with the influx of transfer talent but I don't know. To be completely honest, I begin looking forward to trying to get into a good law school. Trying to get into a place where being part of the basketball team is bigger than it is here. Where the kids give a s@#t and the bush-league football team isn't the king of the town. I'm sure I'll have more in the coming days on what has been a painful season but for now and for tonight, that is it.
I take back all my negative comments about Staudacher hes all we have this game shit and Strait is in foul trouble
this season is now over. hooray!
Idaho st. 14 of 18 in second half. Do you think maybe we should find an assistant coach that can teach defense. If we dont next year we will will be toast. Coaching staff and players should be ashamed. Awful year. Enough said maybe next year?
I don't understand how we get killed on the glass so bad we have plenty of size...that was the difference tonight and many other games this season...i still support our guys and we need 2 look ahead to next season and go get that Big Sky title
Griz shoot 11 free throws, Idaho State shoots 22. We may have been homered.
Griz get 24 rebounds, Idaho State gets 36. Griz can't rebound sh*t!!!
PLUS:
It is always nice to see Martin hitting his 3 ball, 5 of 9 - that's only 55%. I was so happy that Tinkle gave him 17 STINKING minutes. I just love Tinkle's great plan of pulling Martin when he is hot, so Martin doesn't go wild. I mean ... Martin only had 3 rebounds, 3 assists and was high point man with 16 points in his lousy 17 minutes.
Tinkle should do the honorable thing and RESIGN. I would guess, since he does not seem to be honorable, he will probably stay for the last year on the contract, so he can finish completely screwing up the Griz Basketball program.
Thanx Tinks, what would we do without you? PROBABLY WIN !
Do you think this is the last time you will bring MM up? I sure hope so. Let me just say this, he did not have that great of a year.
Do you think this is the last time you will bring MM up? I sure hope so. Let me just say this, he did not have that great of a year.
THIS SEASONS TEAM WAS A LET DOWN.
Interesting article on the game:
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/articles/2008/03/09/sports/sports01.txt
I don't need to talk about MM every time, although he is one of the players I enjoy watching ... but to say he didn't have a great year might be a little inaccurate ... true, he didn't have the year he might have had ... on the other hand, he was 3rd on the team in points, 3rd on the team in assists, 3rd on the team in steals, and 6th on the team in minutes. It would be hard to say he didn't earn his minutes. It's also amazing that even on nights where he was clearly one of the major contributors, he didn't get the minutes one might have expected. He was one of only two guys on the squad with 2 trips to the dance. He was one of only two seniors. Other coaches tried to limit his touches ... but in essence, Tinkle was more effective at it.
No, I don't think Matt is God. I don't think he had an all-conference year. Yes, I think he's had better years. The question is, was it because of how he played, or because of how he was played? I suspect that could keep this thread going for some time.
TO:
Do you think this is the last time
**********
WHAT? Are you insane, or simply basketball ignorant.
For playing only two thirds the minutes that Hasquet, Strait & Staudacher, NO ONE statistically had a better year.
We are talking about:
1. 1000 point club member
2. top ten all time Griz assists
3. second all time Griz 3 pointers, only 4 behind Criswell, in 974 minutes less, that's 24 less complete games.
Just because a coach is to freaken STUPID to play his best guard enough minutes, doesn't mean the guard had a bad season.
Martin had a better shooting season than any of his previous years, which were all good enough to make him one of only 24 all time Griz in the 1000 point club.
Martin's Field goal %
07-08 - .421 % BEST YEAR
06-07 - .382 %
05-06 - .408 %
04-05 - .406 %
Martin's 3 point %
07-08 - .387 % BEST YEAR
06-07 - .374 %
05-06 - .364 %
04-05 - .376 %
Martin Career total %
Field goal - .406%
3 point % - .376%
Martin's career stats are every bit as good as Criswell's
Criswell Career total %
Field goal - .411%
3 point % - .345%
You must be insane or ignorant, because you sure don't know what the h*ll you are talking about.
One can only imagine the kind of numbers Martin would have put up if he had played his last two years for a coach with a functioning brain.
Congratulations Tinkle, Hill and Marso, you beat Martin, that was your main goal for the last two years! Imagine what the outcome would have been tonight if you would have given him 30 minutes.
Griz Nation missed out on seeing a very fine player, you would never let him get on a roll. But again you think that you have won and in reality you don't even know how much you have lost! Real coaches don't pick favorites, they coach talent.
Tinkle, GO AWAY !
You are not fit to care for the kids we put in your charge.
Do the right thing and quit NOW, TODAY, SOONER if possuble.
Honestly i think we need to completely stop thinking the success of 05-06 and 04-05 is comin back...There was only one reason for that success and that was Larry Kryskoviak...Growing up in Boise our semi pro team the Idaho Stampede was complete crap until Krysko came in and won the CBA title...Then when he bounced to Montana he had an immediate impact, lets face it Krysko is a damn good coach who took our mediocre team and fooled us into believing we could have long term success such as a Gonzaga...Tinkle isn't half the coach Krysko is and has taken everything Krysko did for the program and pushed it aside putting us back where we were before Krysko came in and it really sucks...At least our basketball program can say that a current NBA coach was our coach 2 seasons ago...but how about another possible coaching bring back Mike Montgomery who is currently without a coaching job???eh...
Without a good coach, EVERY TEAM in the NCAA is a mediocre team. The 07-08 Griz team members are as talented as any team out there, with a good coach, and as mediocre as any team without a good coach.
This season rest squarely on Tinkles shoulders for taking probably the most talented group of athletes in the BSC and turning the Griz into a non tourney semi finals qualifier.
Tinkle would have done that to any team he coached in the Big Sky, or any other conference. Ken Bone of Portland State, on the other hand, could have had the Griz where Portland State is now.
Tinkle IS NOT a Head basketball coach. Tinkle is just a former big man who's only ability now is to teach basic inside moves to other bigs.
He should leave game plans and guards to someone who knows their butt from a hole in the ground.
I really appreciate what you do on this site Colin, for the most part its top notch. For a smaller program, we're lucky to have such a regularly updated, well thought out, comprehensive blog. Your dedication to Grizzly athletics will be sorely missed when you're gone. However, I have to object to your last bullet point about the ISU game. I know you're frustrated with the student turnout this year, but taking shots at the students and the university won't really help things much and it comes across as just another angry blogger rant. I have to admit I was dissapointed with this season too, but can you really blame your average college student for not caring about Grizzly Hoops? I mean honestly, what do the Griz bring to the table that would get your average fan into the arena?
A stagnant half court offense based around overdribbling and poor shot selection?
A lack of guts and enthusiasm (as displayed by our 52 point embarassment to PSU), especially in crunch time?
Poor rebounding and defensive fundamentals?
Wins put fans in the seats (see UM Lady Griz Hoops) and until that happens, the students will remain apathetic towards the men's hoops team. I really appreciate the effort by Jim O'Day to try and get the students involved, but sadly I don't think it will ever work until the team raises its level of play. And I don't see the Griz raising their level of play as long as Tinkle is the head coach. I'm gonna be really bummed if I have to watch Jack McGillis go one on five next year because Tinkle can't coach his way out of a paper bag.
The problem is just that: the University of Montana has average fans. Look around at other student bodies, places where sports mean more than they do here; are students average fans? No. On autumn Saturday's, we'd like to think Montana has some of the best sports fans in the nation but that's just not the case. Even at football games, people would rather sit in a parking lot and drink beer than help their team jump-start the second half. There are reasons abound that aren't worth discussing but it is what it is. This school doesn't have enough people that really care about its athletics. I wish that weren't the case, but it is.
"A stagnant half court offense based around overdribbling and poor shot selection?"
Over-dribbling is why ET and Ellis were chosen to be point guards. That's what this offense is all about...dribble around until you can get the ball to the bigs. No movement at all in this offense...dull as dirt!!!
Then, in large, people want it that way because that is the tradition. Coaches that play any other style don't last long either.
When a guard shoots and there is more that 5-10 seconds on the clock , it is poor shot selection and the kid is written up from every source. You see being wide open is not poor shot selection anywhere else. It is called opportunity and if you miss you try to rebound for a second chance. It's called hustle. Are you watching the style of play in the playoffs around the country?
A Reason why I and many others do not attend griz basketball games is because who wants to watch a losing team in a shitty conferance.
In other words, you are not a real basketball fan, you are a shitty, jump on the band wagon fan.
There are a bunch of, shitty jump on the band wagon, fans out there. You can always spot them after a win.
They are the ones trying to make themselves feel better about their miserable existence by saying, "WE WON the game".
After a loss, they are also the ones who say, "THEY lost the game".
People can be basketball fans without being Griz basketball fans. Go to a populated area and cheer for a real team.
If I'm a student, going to school here, I can't pick up and "go to a populated area and cheer for a real team." There are 13,000 other undergrads who are represented, in terms of basketball, by this team... which is apparently not real(?). It makes a bit of sense to try to support a team that travels all over the country with your school's name on its chest. Is this really that crazy an idea?
Why would you not support the Griz basketball team...in the last 5 years they've had more success than 90% of mid-major programs with 2 tournament appearances and a tournament win against a loaded Nevada team also a win against Pac-10 powerhouse Stanford...People at our school just can't understand that our basketball team competes with the best the nation has unlike our football team who competes with all the teams ranked below 119th in the nation...so in all our school should be a basketball school not a football school because who the fuck cares if you beat Wofford, Southern Illinois, and a bunch of those other unknowns our basketball team plays at a higher level than our football team...and fair weather fans suck look at University of Michigan this year they are absolute garbage yet they still sell that building out every game which impresses me...It amazes me 2 that one of our best players is from the Missoula area in Jordan Hasquet which you think would generate more buzz amongst the community...It shouldn't be about winning or losing it should be about supporting our Griz and appreciating the fact that they step up and play at the highest level of college basketball...
Bring back Mike Montgomery to coach the Griz...He is without a head coaching job and was an important element in the old "Zoo" atmosphere...He would jump start the basketball program by bringing some hype to campus similar to what Dennis Erickson did to University of Idaho when he decided to revive his career there for one season even though U of I still sucked they sold out most of there games because they brought back their greatest coach in history...We could do the same bringing back Montgomery
Mike Montgomery to coach the Griz.
I'm with you on that Devin. The sooner the better.
I think to prove that the griz can play at a highest level of D-1 basketball they have to start beating or at least start competing in thier big D-1 non conferance games. Which won't get accomplished with Tinkle under the helm. Just wish coach K could have finished out the next four years with his 05' freshman class.
The more I look at the recruiting, I'm interested to see what one more year will do. Ward could be a beast from the get go. Factor in Selvig and Qvale, that's big. Who knows who else will be added. At the same time, I'm terrified. He will almost certainly get a third year but I think another season like this could be it.
I think Coach T has failed to grasp the significance of utilizing all 5 spots on the floor. If he doesn't get it, it is definitely time for him to be gone.
I think the Griz have/had a talented back court, but I don't think Tinks had a clue as to how to factor it into his game plan.
When I find corroborating opinions, no matter where, I like to spread them around. I think the regular readers here know I'm from the Seattle-Tacoma area and am also a big UW fan ... boy what a year to be both a UM and UW fan, just brutal ... Anyway, this column was in the Seattle Times this morning. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jerrybrewer/2004273820_brewer11.html I have to say I think Brewer's spot on in his analysis of the Huskies, but the basic premise applies to the Griz, also. Whether your back court lacks talent, or whether you just don't use it effectively, it's going to be nothing but bad news if you try to play the game without contibution from the back court.
Coach T had talent available that he way under-utilized this year. The AD ought to sit him down and ask him "How do you plan to get a more balanced attack in the coming season?" If - as one might predict from this year's performance - his answer is "What do you mean?", then it's time to start interviewing other candidates.
Coach K's '05 freshman class??? Only 1 of these players is still on the team-Kyle Sharp.
Martin & Strait were both freshman Krysko's first 04-05 year.
Kyle Sharp came in 05-06, Krysko's second year.
Martin and Strait were recruited by Kennedy. Larry K, while a fine coach, did not leave much in terms of players he coached.
coach K coached Straight and Martin for two years. That is a major reason Martin and Straight were by far the two best players the Griz had last year and this year.
Last year?? I think you forgot about (1st Team All-Big Sky) Jordan H.
Coach K also recruited Staud 05 year. He held back for a better offer and then came 06
Until Jordan learns to handle the ball good, and play the 2, he won't be a really good D-1 player. As he stands right now, he would be a
very good D-2 player or NAIA player at the 3 & 4.
If you go back and look at his games, he only did really good against small D-1 teams like MSU-Northern, South Dakota State, Idaho
State, Sac State, Eastern WA.
Against teams like Portland State, he got skunked the first time they played and 7 points in the last one. Against Gonzaga he got 5
points. Washington State 7 points.
Unlike some of the other good players on the Griz, Jordan usually got 30 to 38 minutes per game. Why, I'll never understand. I think it's
because Tinkle in an idiot.
Jordan needs to work on foot speed and ball handling. If he gets good at ball handling, and has some penetration skill, he might make
an adequate 2 as a D-1 player.
If Jordan wants to shine as a ball player, he should do what Matt Penoncello and Jake Beitinger formerly of Eastern Washington did.
They both Transferred to D-2 Central Washington, and have both been excellent there.
At Jordan's skill level right now, D-2 is where he should be as a 3 or 4.
I will not be a huge Jordan Hasquet fan until he starts pulling down 7 boards a night but here's some numbers...
vs Stanford: 20 pts in 34 minutes
vs Nevada: 16 pts in 20 minutes
vs BC: 13 points on 50% shooting
Not outstanding numbers but towards close to the team's leading scorer in each of those games.
If you think next year's team is better off w/o Jordan Hasquet--who somehow, w/ d2 talent, made first team all-conference last year--you're insane.
Anyone who get a constant greern light, no matter how they are playing, will get points. Jordan was slightly better last year than this year. This year, Jordan was a VERY VERY average player. If you can't see that, you are not only insane, but ignorant of basketball skills and abilities.
I didn't say that. All I said was he's not a D2 player. Worth noting that just about everyone on the team played average and inconsistent this year. I'm not ignorant enough to think that a guy who was first team all-conference as a sophomore and big sky tournament MVP as a freshman is a d2 player.
All one has to say about BSC awards given to players on a loosing team is, PITY.
If you remember, Cam Rundles was given a BSC award last year. You tell me, was it applicable this year?
If you get a BSC award and play on a winning team, win the BSC tourney, and then make it to the big dance, that means something.
Probably, Krysko leaving has something to do with Hasquet progressively playing worse each year.
There is no doubt Hasquet did better his freshman year than his next two.
The way he has been playing for the last two years ... D-2 ... definitely comes to mind.
Alright, don't a panel of writers (and maybe coaches) vote on these awards? I mean they're not nonsense. His first team selection wasn't nothing. 13 and 6 and 75% from the line isn't bad. His best games came as a freshman but that was, in terms of total output, his best year.
"Cam Rundles was given a BSC award last year. You tell me, was it applicable this year?"
No award is "applicable" the next year. People don't guess how players are going to perform next year when determining who gets this year's award. Cam played great in conference play and led the league in 3 point shooting during the regular season (ahead of stephen sir).
Back to the subject of awards... martin's first team all-tournament always comes up but Jordan's tournament MVP and conference first team are worthless. Doesn't make a ton of sense.
Jordan and Jack will be big on this team next year, most Griz fans agree on that. Do you honestly think we're better off w/o him? Based on what I saw last year, I see us going CET-Staudacher-McGillis-Jordo-Qvale. That's assuming we don't get a great JuCo transfer or a phenomenal freshman(I do not believe Ward nor Stockton will start right away but getting an incoming starter is not impossible). Based solely on the players we KNOW will be here (exclude Cam and Graves) what is your starting lineup?
As far as awards go, here is the deal, the coaches have to nominate a player and then the coaches vote on the list. Coaches control on this issue tosses some players right out the window for awards. I can name one of our players who should have been nominated for freshman of the year one year and nominated for all conference another but it never happened...coaches control who they want to be honored. If this player had been nominated you know he would have gotten votes. I think that all names should be up and then coaches should vote, that way a coach with a mission can't knock someone out.
I did state the award Hasquet got his freshman year DID mean something, because it came on a championship team that went to the dance.
The reason why Jordo started on his downward trend after that, and got the PITY awards, is because Krysko left and Tinkle, who likes Jordo, took over.
As far as awards go, here is the REAL DEAL.
All the other looser coaches like Tinkle tell each other who to pick for the PITY awards, and they all fall in line since the PITY awards really mean nothing anyway.
Awards that are given out of PITY, are those given to players on teams who didn't do well, didn't go to the dance, and didn't go anywhere in their own tourney.
Each coach understands the biggest loser coaches are going to need help keeping and recruiting players next year, so they give PITY awards to the
BIGGEST LOSERS.
Coaches tell the other coaches in the conference which of their players he wants them to pick. Those other Coaches ALWAYS fall in
line no matter what they personally think of that player.
Each coach picks his own personal favorite from his team, skill usually has very little to do with it. They don't want the other coaches screwing with the accolades they want their favorites to get, whether the player deserves accolades or not.
All the PITY awards go team to team, because PITY awards are taken in turn by losers year to year.
It's that way in every conference, always has been, and always will be.
Jordo got one award his freshman year that mattered. Since then, he has been on a down hill slide. Tinkle likes Jordo and has helped Jordo get a couple of PITY awards, but Tinkle is also responsible for Jordo's down hill talent slide.
No one here can validate or disprove your PITY conspiracy theory so it's not worth discussing much but who are you starting next year if you're coach?
No PITY conspiracy, just facts.
Until I see more extended play from most of the bench, I will go with:
START2nd / 3rd
TaylorRundles/Stock
HasquetSprug / M.Taylor
StaudGraves / Hurly
McGillisSharp
QvaleVander/Selvig
Jordo was all conference his soph season (under Tinkle), not his freshman year as Sanchez seems to think. Colin, why bother going back and forth with an argumentative and uninformed toad like Sanchez? He obviously hates the Griz and uses this forum to exclusively talk trash.
Don,
You ignorant toad
I said the only award Hasquet got that meant anything was on the WINNING team of Krysko's.